Curse

lacasner · May 06, 2007, 09:37 PM // 21:37

Hi, I made this thread to discuss the fact of stagnancy in PvP. Lately, and by this I mean the past few weeks or so, I've been watching a few high-end gvg's and HA in observer mode. It is always interesting to watch these high ranked guilds play, and particularly when I watch them I try to pay attention to the fact what makes them so "1337".

My main gripe and idea of concern is lack of build diversity, where basically Guild Wars is turning into a click-fest. Everyone uses the same build, 3 monks, 2 warriors or so (1 being hammer one being eviscerate), a me/mo, and a e/rt flag runner, and a burning-arrow ranger.

In all types of pvp, these builds are all that I see, and really in a sense they have become really better than other ones. My opinion is that other skills must be changed as well, and that even if 1000 skills exist if only 50 of those are actually better what is the point of having the other 900? My point is, things like this have killed PvP, and hopefully Anet will change this situation.

Anyone agree?

ogre-mage · May 06, 2007, 09:53 PM // 21:53

It's because pvp has sucked for a long time now. The really good guilds from back in the day have all quit and all that is left are the riffraff and such...

I don't care.

darkk wound · May 06, 2007, 10:03 PM // 22:03

" The really good guilds from back in the day have all quit" obviously they wernt the "best" because the "best" learn to adapt to new changes where as all the "best guilds quit" have left pvp so you say

Series · May 06, 2007, 10:07 PM // 22:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by darkk wound

" The really good guilds from back in the day have all quit" obviously they wernt the "best" because the "best" learn to adapt to new changes where as all the "best guilds quit" have left pvp so you say

Or maybe it is the fact that PvP is so dumbed down now they felt there is not much point in playing? As topic creator said, the builds all basically revolve around the same concept.

OP is right, PvP is basically dead. HA is a complete joke and GvG has seen better days.

Esprit · May 06, 2007, 10:09 PM // 22:09

"The really good guilds from back in the day have all quit and all that is left are the riffraff and such..."

Because only good guilds can be from 'back in the day'... right. Good guilds leave, others come to replace them, just because you don't see the same guild winning HA ten times in a row, does not mean that it's just 'riffraff' playing.

People are too jaded from when they remember Guild Wars a year or two ago, that's why they think PvP is bad now.

ogre-mage · May 06, 2007, 10:09 PM // 22:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by darkk wound

" The really good guilds from back in the day have all quit" obviously they wernt the "best" because the "best" learn to adapt to new changes where as all the "best guilds quit" have left pvp so you say

So in your mind the best Guilds are the ones that put up with any BS that is thrown at them? Being able to adapt, and wanting to are two different things, tool.

Swift Thief · May 06, 2007, 10:29 PM // 22:29

Nope, now that ATS is live, PvP is alive as ever!

Taki · May 06, 2007, 10:57 PM // 22:57

The "best" guilds, as someone put it, have been replaced by number but not by talent. And since other guilds could no longer play against them they had to follow another evolutionary path to improvement. Today's best guilds are damn good by any standard, they will just never be the "best" as in that GW mini-era.

Oh, there are many who thought long ago that the pvp was stale and quit. There are many who still think that but keep playing, partly because of faith that the situation will turn around someday but mostly because they have nothing else better to do. And of course there are those who mostly fine with the current state. In my experience these players are either new to pvp in general, grinding away rank, or vets who like stomping newbies/grinders/people-who-just-suck.

P.S. In before the lock

The Muffen Man · May 06, 2007, 11:11 PM // 23:11

I say pvp and guild wars in general is the dead horse that has been flogged one too many times.
They have nerfed, twisted and contorted the game in to such a boring stagnant
lump of poop and there is nothing they can do with it anymore to fix it, other than redesigning the game from scratch.
Thats where gw2 comes in.

lacasner · May 06, 2007, 11:12 PM // 23:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by Taki

Oh, there are many who thought long ago that the pvp was stale and quit. There are many who still think that but keep playing, partly because of faith that the situation will turn around someday but mostly because they have nothing else better to do. And of course there are those who mostly fine with the current state. In my experience these players are either new to pvp in general, grinding away rank, or vets who like stomping newbies/grinders/people-who-just-suck.

P.S. In before the lock

Thank you for your input, but I don't really appreciate intentionally trying to insult people in order to close this thread, which I think is important, considering with the state of pvp right now.

Steps_Descending · May 06, 2007, 11:31 PM // 23:31

So here'S my question now : what makes GW-PvP mecanics so crappy?

Anyone here who played other games can give input on this.

Frazzy · May 06, 2007, 11:35 PM // 23:35

PvP is dead, PvE is dying, thus Guild Wars is dying.

Skyy High · May 06, 2007, 11:36 PM // 23:36

People complain about "gimmicky" builds, and want most of the "hardcore" PvPers look at such builds as ridiculous and inferior to balanced builds. The gimmicks have been hit a bit and have fallen out of favor, so balanced builds are back on the scope again (balanced being of course the build you described in the OP). Those "boring" builds are exactly what the top guilds in general want to run.

However, you're rather wrong on that being the "only" build that's being run. Spikes are still around occasionally, and more prevalent are the hex heavy builds that are everywhere in GvG. Incidentally, many people have been calling for nerfs to hexes (passive hexes in general) because of this, and to make balanced builds even more prevalent.

None of this really says whether or not PvP is dead, only that your evaluation of the current metagame is off.

lacasner · May 06, 2007, 11:37 PM // 23:37

Its not really crappy per-say, or at least the idea of player skill>level is a great one. However, with so few really usuable skills and combinations, plus really few rewards (other than having fun :P) it is a combination of the two which turns players away.

With other games, there are pk areas, or player kill areas where you can take people's loot for a profit. Also, this game is very team oriented pvp wise, and many people have tight schedules and not a lot of pro-gamer friends to play with. So, its a lot of factors, but mostly its the lack of build diversity.

The idea of a metagame also confuses me in this game. Skills should be balanced properly, so there isn't any dominant builds or skills at a time. At least this is how I understood it :P

Swift Thief · May 06, 2007, 11:53 PM // 23:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by Frazzy

PvP is dead, PvE is dying, thus Guild Wars is dying.

Please know what you are talking about. PvP is not dead, becauses there are many people who still do PvP. PvE is not dying, it has been rejuvinated from heroes and further recently, hard mode.

Eonwe · May 06, 2007, 11:59 PM // 23:59

who r u.

The message you have entered is too short... blah blah!

adderworks · May 07, 2007, 12:16 AM // 00:16

No need for flames....

I did the PVP thing for a while back in 06. I stopped when you could only get groups by using the cookie cutter builds of the day. When I stopped into the PVP islands to give some sup runes to a PVE guildy trying PVP the other day, I saw the same demand for them in chat; the following rant about the group demanding my fellow guildy - "new to PVP" - pretty much made him give up on it. Soooo, the reason to a decline in PVP activity might be as simple as new PVPers not enjoying the PVP community as a whole.

Spazzer · May 07, 2007, 12:43 AM // 00:43

Losing talented teams hurts interest in pvp. There is no KOR, no EViL, and no Te to measure up to anymore.

Mourne · May 07, 2007, 01:19 AM // 01:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by Spazzer

Losing talented teams hurts interest in pvp. There is no KOR, no EViL, and no Te to measure up to anymore.

Welcome to pvp.

For one thing Te is kinda still here, they are scattered in a couple of different guilds, rawr, Honk, and so on. Furthermore, you simply cannot compare old guilds with the guilds of today. Obviously everyone knew the old guilds were good, but they are gone, and you have new guilds today. They are just as good in *most* aspects of the game, they just play it at a different time. Because of the time difference, it is just stupid to compare anyone now to the former "top" teams.

Gregslot · May 07, 2007, 01:42 AM // 01:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by Frazzy

PvP is dead, PvE is dying, thus Guild Wars is dying.

Hummm now i wonder: Why are you here then? Obviously you are unhappy about the game, so why are you still here?
You dont need to stay in a place you are unhappy (unless you are one of those wierd people that like to feel miserable), let me correct myself, you shouldnt be in a place where you are unhappy. AND we dont WANT you to stay in a place beein unhappy because we do not NEED negative and descructive coments!

Back to the topic.
For me, AB, RA and Hero Battle are the best pvp in the game. Because you hardly ever depend on other people. So you dont need to feel stressed when you take 30 minutes to form a group and you lose at the first match because your monk doesnt know how to heal properly.
From my point of view, HA and GB are dying, not pvp in general.